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Through WVD's unique electronic system, you are in contact with the world of excitement

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on Bob Kennedy Contact.

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Well, you know, Hartley had made through Kehoe, director of myCAP, National Investigating Committee

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on Aerial Phenomenon, departed Boston a week or so ago, and the balloon really went up out

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in Michigan.

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At least something went up out there because we have a whole rash of reports of unidentified

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flying objects that were sighted in the Ann Arbor area.

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They were seen by farmers, by policemen, the Civil Defense Director co-eds roughly about

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400 and all.

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What were they?

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Well, we'll get some opinion tonight, some from the official Air Force investigator who

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has sent to the scene, some from Major Kehoe in Washington, and also from that Civil Defense

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Director in Michigan.

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And later we'll be hearing from a reporter out there who interviewed any number of eyewitnesses.

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How about you, too?

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Have you had any sightings lately?

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You wonder what this thing called UFO is, what it's all about?

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I tell you what, this place is lively, it'll explode tonight, and the electronic mess before

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the evening is over because we have hooked up a line between Washington and back to Michigan,

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and Washington will have, for a while, Dick Hall, the Assistant Director of the National

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Investigating Committee on Aerial Phenomenon.

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They will have the Civil Defense Director from Hillsdale, Michigan, Bud Van Horn on the long

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distance line.

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We'll be here in Boston, we'll have Streeter Stewart with us a little bit, Streeter from

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WBZ News, of course, and also a member of NYCAP at UNI-Line, so we really have something

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going, and we'll be back getting our conversation underway, but first let's have a session.

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How are you?

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Fine, fine.

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Very good, and hello, Bud Van Horn in Michigan.

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Hello, Bob.

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Bud, can you hear Dick?

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I can hear Dick, fine.

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Dick, can you hear Bud?

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Yes, very well.

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Okay, off we go then.

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I think we'll begin with Dick Hall, but if you don't mind down in Washington, Dick, of

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course, is the Assistant Director of the National Investigating Committee on Aerial Phenomenon.

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Major Kehoe is on his way to Washington, and he'll be joining us a little bit later.

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But having been involved in these saucer shows, Dick, for about three and a half years here

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on contact, all that it seems to me that this is probably one of the biggest rash of sightings

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that I have ever seen in the past three years anyhow.

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How does this stack up according to other flaps that you've had?

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Well, the only one that was comparable to it at all was in November and December of 1957,

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and this is the keeps up at the present pace.

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We'll outdo that one.

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We have literally dozens of reports pouring in right now from all over the country.

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So it's not only Michigan?

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Not only Michigan, no.

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They're throughout the South and far West, and the sight map is just prickling with thin.

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Any particular theory as to why?

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I think the sightings have been going on very steadily since last summer, and I think the

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only difference right now is that they got some publicity for a change, and something

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touched off the wire services and the national network people, and therefore it's brought

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it more out into the open.

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Well, of course, I guess it's something that touched off the wire services was the fact

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that so many people were seeing them at one time up in Michigan and the Hillsdale and

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Arbor area, correct?

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And this in itself was the nearest Arbor and the University of Michigan and the radio

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telescope site that probably did it, plus the fact that, but Sanhorn was one of the

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witnesses and the deputy sheriff.

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Gentlemen, we've just been joined by Frida Stewart here of WBZ News and also a member

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of my cat.

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Frida, we're currently talking about the fact that we'll flap out from Michigan, at

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least from the shows we have been doing here on contact, seems to be a rather big one,

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and I guess from people interested in this thing, a rather important one, correct?

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Yes, I think so.

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I think the reports have said that the reports were the most consistent that they had had

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by a large number of people in a long time.

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However, Dr. Heineck's reports that it was probably swamp gas, we'll probably put a damper

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on that.

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He didn't say that it positively was swamp gas, but from all indications as far as he

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could find out, he thought that it was swamp gas arising now in the springtime because

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it was rather warm and these people were seeing clouds of swamp gas.

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We'll hear portions of that statement a little bit later on.

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Here we have Bud Van Horne, he was a civil defense director out in Hillsdale for Hillsdale

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County, and he saw and has seen the UFOs.

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In fact, he's watched one last night.

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I wonder, do you go along with the theory of Mr. Van Horne that it would be gas out there

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that caused this?

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Definitely not, Bob.

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Very definitely not.

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Bob, I would like to ask Mr. Van Horne, why he didn't report this to the nearest Air Force

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and have them send some planes over to investigate what this thing actually was, why he watched

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from 11 until 2?

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Because on the previous reports to Self-Reach Air Force Base, I have received very poor reception

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and they have been made to look like a very ignorant person.

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And this occurred last night for your information and this information shall be released in

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the near future.

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You mean the recent reciting last night?

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Right.

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What did it look like, can you give us an indication of it?

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Yes, Ken, Bob.

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It was one of the most perfect sightings that we have had in the last 10 years that I have

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been receiving these reports and tracking them down.

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The object was long in shape.

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Now this is a different shape than I have ever been able to determine before and I think

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the reason for it was that it was closer to the surface of the Earth.

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I estimated the altitude of this at approximately 18,000 feet.

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Have you seen them before you said that I have been able to estimate before?

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Pardon?

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Have you seen them at other times?

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Yes, I have seen them many a times and I have not bothered to report them to any agency

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because I did not feel that the Air Force was interested in them.

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How many times have you seen them in the last week or so?

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I have not seen many of them, Bob.

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Many of them.

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I can't tell you how many.

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But how many have you seen them every night?

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Have you been watching them?

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Pardon?

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Have you been seeing them every night out there?

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Not every night because really I have not been watching for them every night.

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There is hardly a night that has gone by, I would say in the last two weeks, because

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I have not received a reporting of UFOs.

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Don't you think this is rather a serious situation where there isn't enough liaison between the

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civil defense in the county and the Air Force, particularly where civil defense is so concerned

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about what these might be and the Air Force supposedly also being concerned, especially

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with anything that might be a threat to our security?

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Right.

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Just let me relate to you what happened last night.

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This is really an exclusive because I have not released any information to the newspaper

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for radio media today.

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Is it all right if I do this, Bob, and run it in?

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I observed this after following a report of this having followed a train between the small

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village of Allen and the city of Hillstill last night.

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And the train, I tried very hard to convince the engineer who reported it that it was an

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aircraft possible place.

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After listening to him and finding that this was going alongside the train and then speeded

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up to a great speed, it then stopped and the train, which was a freight train, was able

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to come up to it again.

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It flovered in the air and came straight here to the city of Hillstill and then took off.

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They sighted it, followed it, and they immediately called me and I immediately got on it.

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At that time that I got on it, I was able to visually with the naked eye see this object

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in the sky.

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It appeared to be elongated and at the top it had a green light or a blue which sometimes

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referred to.

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In the center was a white light and on the bottom was a red light.

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And upon doing this, I then put the populars on it which brought it up very plain and it

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still appeared to be elongated and through the binoculars which were 7 by 50, appeared

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to be about the length, maybe a little longer than the length of a common pin.

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I immediately called Selfridge Air Force Base in attempt to get the radar confirmation on

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it and was given the run around.

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I asked why a chase plane couldn't be put off the ground into the air to check this out.

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The answer that I got was they were not authorized.

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I ended up getting my confirmation on this which I did get the confirmation on it through

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Willow Run Airport radar and not the military radar sight.

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They had this sighted on radar.

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Right.

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We had a confirmation of this.

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We got an inanimate flip on it and also we got the second.

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There was two of them there.

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And to go a little further and to tell you merely that I witnessed the docking and separation

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of two of these in the air last night.

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That's all I will say.

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Wow, this really is a fantastic development and this is news that I haven't heard on any

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news wire or from any source whatsoever.

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I have not released this.

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I will suppress all information from now on.

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I will not release any information whatsoever to anybody.

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This is an exclusive for you, Bob.

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Okay, fine.

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Thank you so much.

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I'd be very interested in Vic Hall's reaction to that and then give lots of people waiting

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to join us on our long distance line and our local line.

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We've got so many lines out of here.

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On our local line, the people of Boston because we'll be on the long distance line with Major

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Kehoe and also with that reporter out there, Daniel Campbell, reporter at the Ipsilanti

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Press and Ipsilanti, Michigan, who has interviewed many of the eyewitnesses.

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Free to Stuart, our guest here in Boston on our long distance line in Washington is

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the Assistant Director of myCamp Dick Hall in Michigan on a special conference called

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is Buzz Van Horn, the Civil Defense Director for Hillsdale County out there.

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We heard quite a startling story from Buzz Van Horn.

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What was your reaction to that before we get to some calls here in Boston?

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I think it's a very impressive report and I'm glad to get some of the details directly

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from Buzz Van Horn.

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We had heard rumors about this and we're glad to hear it to confirm we have had similar

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reports in the past of objects joining up in the air and I think his description of it

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as a docking operation is very interesting.

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You know something that I'd like to talk with Major Kehoe about a little bit later but I was intrigued

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by finding out that the Republican leader of the House, Senator Ford, has called the

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Representative Ford, I think it's the Representative Senator.

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Gerald Ford, I don't know him.

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Republican Leader House, Republican Leader has to represent it.

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Of course Gerald Ford called for a full blown investigation of unidentified flying objects

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sightings. This is something that Major Kehoe has been talking about for quite a few years.

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Bob?

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Yes, sir.

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Major Kehoe just came in so I'll turn it over to him.

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Okay, fine.

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Major Kehoe, how are you?

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Hi, Bob.

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Fine.

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I'm glad to have you with us here in Boston Zoo.

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Oh, hello from me.

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You can say hello to me right here.

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Oh, hey, it's very good to have you with us.

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And of course Major on our long distance line out in Michigan is the civil defense director

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Hillsdale County, Bob Van Horn.

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I'd like a little bit later, if you don't mind, I just want to take some phone calls, talk

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about House Republican Leader Ford's statements today that he'd like to see a full blown

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investigation of UFOs.

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Yes.

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Okay, right now let's take a call.

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Bob Kennedy, you're on contact, you're on the air.

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Hello?

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Yes, ma'am.

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This is what's in calling from West Pee Ready.

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Yes.

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He was driving along New Gear and he stopped with a friend of his, Mr. Tonever.

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My name is...

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Monday night.

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And they came across in these cruisers and police stopped naturally.

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It was a matter of any story.

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The guy shaved off his tuff and he was over where the airport used to be.

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And my next door neighbor who happened to have camera in the car took a picture.

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Now for a reason I don't know his decline to show his picture to anybody.

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I was wondering if anybody would be interested in the picture.

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Would you show it to or what could you do about this?

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Sure, bring it in here.

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Which is very interesting to see.

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It's a beautiful program.

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And then I'm sure a streeter would like to take a look at it as a representative of the nine camps

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and we'll get to the right hand.

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Watch every husband drop it off.

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Alright, that's an amazing radio.

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Right, and we guarantee you a minute.

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Drop it off and go questions that.

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Alright, thank you very much.

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Thank you for coming.

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Got your picture straight out.

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Tom Kennedy, you're in contact now.

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You're on the air.

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Hi, I'd like to direct my question to Mr. Keogh.

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Yes, sir.

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I'd like to know what his opinion on the fact why whenever the...

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Exciting of the UFOs reported to the Air Force.

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Why the Air Force?

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Very rarely reports its findings to the public because you find a member of the time

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the Air Force keeps quiet and they never have the effort to report the findings to the public.

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Although they do get national trust coverage, but the Air Force never comments on it.

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I'm a major.

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Well, there is a high level policy which the Air Force carries out.

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These things must be played down, explained, and possible to avoid the hysteria, perhaps panic.

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The Air Force really should not be playing too much.

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This is policy that is at a very high level and many people in the Air Force don't even believe in it.

246
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I think that it's bound to cause trouble sooner or later.

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But under that policy, all of the project people and the Air Force spokesman and the best officers are required to explain as many things they can even though some of the answers are obviously holding on the ridiculous.

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I'm Bob Kennedy. You're on the air. You're in contact.

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Hello, Mr. Kennedy.

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Yes, sir.

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First of all, I'd like to say that I'm a believer, but you were major keel over the past few months and made my wife a real believer.

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And you know something, I don't know, major keel. I'm not a believer. I don't think I'm one of the initiated.

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I'm not one of the born again believers.

254
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I kind of sit here hopefully with someone of a cynic's attitude about this. I think that's my job.

255
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Well, true.

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I'm just, if I were so interested, I would be very concerned that people are using the word believer because it almost has that mystical attitude.

257
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Well, maybe it's a wishful thinking, right?

258
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Well, I don't know if that's it, but as a streeter, do you, does it bother you when people say, I am a believer in?

259
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It really doesn't bother me. I think what they really mean is that I think that these things are real and I think that there is something to it that they're not just large gas and so on.

260
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Right. Well, I had two comments. I'd like some expert opinion on if I could. I was calling from Cape Cod.

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And the first one is I've read articles about, oh, by prominent scientists, I think, at least they say they are from Harvard and other places,

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who say that they've gathered from passages not directly from the Bible, but, oh, things like the Rosetta Stone,

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but not exactly, I'm not saying the Rosetta Stone itself.

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Things they translated from recorded history that people back then, oh, talked about the great fire bird that came from the sky

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and the little golden man that jumped out of it and looked around and got back in his fire,

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the bird in a great blast of fire took off.

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And the scientists said that they thought possibly we had been visited.

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Our planet had been visited and watched over something like, oh, something like you would watch over a garden pretty regularly for the past, oh, maybe five, ten thousand years.

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I'd like some comment on that.

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And also, I guess I'm the only one that's thought, but I remember when the first pictures that the Russians sent back from the moon, the backside of the moon,

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I don't know whether it was a photography blur or what it was, it seemed to be a little spike sticking up.

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And since the moon has no high mountains on it, it's been a discernible from where we sit or from the pictures.

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Of course, I told my wife and some of the immediate family that wouldn't think I was a complete crackpot that, well, this guy had also said,

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when we send somebody to the back of the moon, don't be surprised, find an observation station there that has been built by these people,

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maybe from another part of the galaxy or something else, because what more perfect place than a place which never turns around and faces the Earth.

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And those are just the two things that I'd like to know if maybe some of the people with you there have given any thought to this question at all.

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And since you're waiting for calls, I'll hang up and see if I can get the answer. But thank you very much.

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Okay. Have any thought on this? Yes. It is well known that historically and archaeologically there has been evidence and also the evidence from the Bible that there have been things which some people have said were unidentified flying objects which came from outer space and visited the Earth.

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There were drawings, for example, that are reported to have been from several thousand years BC which showed the creatures with very large heads and very small legs and arms,

280
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which some have said were an indication that these were creatures from outer space and not worldly creatures.

281
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The flea that Ezekiel tells about being in the Bible, some people say was a vehicle from outer space.

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Dr. Menzel of Harvard says that he thinks that probably it was some type of a reflection, sun-dog combination, natural phenomenon.

283
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But it is true that in the Mayan Peninsula and other areas there have been prehistoric and historical evidences that perhaps could be interpreted as UFOs.

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Gentlemen, let me interrupt here. We have a few messages and I'm going to be back continuing our conversation.

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But I'd be very interested in finding out if you have any particular feelings as to why.

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As you said a little bit earlier, the Air Force gave you somewhat of a run-around when you called them as the Civil Defense Director out there in Hillsdale County.

287
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If you have any feelings why, they might have done it.

288
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Now, Buzz Van Horne, I asked you a question before the commercials there about if you had any feelings as to why the Air Force gave you, as you call it, a run-around last season.

289
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Buzz, this is the third recording, the two previous that I have phoned in. The same thing occurred.

290
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This is why I haven't bothered to waste my time phoning any others in.

291
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So, I can't, really, I can't figure this out. They have this UFO investigation program.

292
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But if I had to give an honest opinion, I would say it was one of two things.

293
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Either they just plain are interested, every report they receive means too much paperwork, or else they know what it is.

294
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But as a person who is interested in taking care of his community, and by the way, I don't get paid for this job, it's the greatest job I've been hobby to.

295
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I feel that there should be something done.

296
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Now, last night I asked for a chase plane. It was possible to get a chase plane off and check this out.

297
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The airman that I was talking to said no, they weren't authorized.

298
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Well, they're intently interested in this UFO program, and they want to check these out, and they don't know what they are, and they really want to find out what they are.

299
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So, my way of thinking there should be things that should be authorized here, that they can take immediate action on.

300
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Really, I think it's very important.

301
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One thing, if I can kind of jump over the other side of the fence here, and having once upon a time my life sat inside a control center like that, and gotten some phone calls, not specifically like this.

302
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But, you know, it costs a good deal of money to run one of those things off the ground.

303
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We think, well, gee, just take it on the airplane.

304
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I forget the cost at one time, just to get one off the ground, I think it's something like $10,000, and there is always a danger of life.

305
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And I guess they want to like darn certain what they're going at, and though perhaps they should, and if for instance, like a civil defense director calls up about it, perhaps they should scramble on it.

306
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On the other hand, they really have to think about what they're running an airplane at, that's a major piece of equipment over, you know?

307
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Well Bob, my feeling on this is that there are many things done where our government don't worry about spending the money.

308
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And I'm sure that the planes are used, in fact, no personally were, the aircraft that they used for different various things were, if you want to get right on to Brad's bags, more important.

309
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It all depends. I mean, if they're interested in this program, fine, if they aren't, why don't they say so?

310
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OK, Bob, thank you very much for joining us. We have a division of WBC News coming up, and we'll continue with our conference call down through to Washington, and then joining us a little bit later on our long distance line to Michigan.

311
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So you have to kind of clear the line up there. We'll be Dan Campbell, reporter on the Ypsilanti Press.

312
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Incidentally, in case it's a good windy evening and we're getting out there to Michigan, and we have any of those people who have seen some of the sightings in the past weekend,

313
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would be willing to spend a little change and call us up. We'd love to hear from you.

314
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Major, we said a little bit early we'd talk about the fact that Representative Ford came out today for an investigation.

315
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I imagine this makes you sort of an elated man at this point.

316
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Well, we know that a lot of members of Congress have been supporting hearings, urging them for some time, but there's always changed public attitude and press attitude, has encouraged some of them, and now I think that Representative Ford may get some results. We certainly hope so.

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A little bit later we'll be playing a portion of the French conference with Dr. J. Allen Heineck-Hell today, the investigator from the Air Force and the Project Blue Book out there.

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He, of course, said that the flying objects were due to luminous swamp gas, but he admitted he couldn't prove it.

319
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Did you chuckle, Major?

320
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I didn't control it.

321
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Pardon, sir?

322
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You can call it the chuckle if you want to.

323
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Do you have any particular theories or have you been filtering the reports out down there about why or why they're why it's particularly out in Michigan at this particular time? Why so many?

324
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Well, no, we haven't figured out any pattern which would give a conclusion like that, but quite often there's been a concentration in a certain area over a period of time, and then it ends and the concentration begins somewhere else.

325
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Now, for a long time there was one up there in New England, and now it seems to be shifting over into the Federal wealth, but there's not enough tidings to reach a conclusion on that.

326
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I would say, perhaps, this goes on for a month while we should have a lot more information.

327
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Before we take another phone call, it seems there was something that Dr. Heineck said in his report today, and I'm certainly not an expert on this, but it seemed, frankly, a rather thin reason that's why it went up a flying saucer.

328
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He said he couldn't see why they would pick a swamp.

329
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Why? You know, why not? That's the thing I would want if they're looking for a quiet kind of place.

330
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Well, I think his reasoning was that no sensible pilot, as we know them here on Earth, whether it was a helicopter pilot, a plane pilot, a pilot of anything that flies, would pick a swamp as a place to actually land.

331
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But actually, you know, many of these UFOs seem to hover rather than land, and if they picked out a swamp where people are not expecting this and where they wanted some privacy while they did some observing or gathering some specimens or the like, perhaps a swamp would be an ideal place for them to so-called hover or come close to land.

332
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Sir, I bet there are any number of people asking this question. I have asked it so many times, and sometimes I almost forget to ask it again, but I think it's important.

333
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People who might be hearing the program tonight, they say, oh, for heaven's sake, again, with those flying saucers, if they're out there, why in the world if they're watching us and if they're down here?

334
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For heaven's sake, if they were with Tuesday, they'd go right up to Washington, hover over the White House, and say, President Johnson, here we are, we're from outer space, how are you? And end all of this controversy once and for all.

335
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Well, Bob, you know, these, if there are intelligent creatures in their spacecraft, there's no indication these are identical to us. It could very well be that if a civilization has reached an advanced state of technology whereby they are able to propel their spaceship at an ever-increasing acceleration and they can travel the speed of sound, it's not inconceivable that they are willing to spend the four years in space travel.

336
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That it would take from one of the other suns in our planetarium, in our solar system, rather, or outside of our solar system, but in our galaxy, that's what I really mean, to come here and establish a base, some place that we don't know, and then use the so-called purpose ship, just as we will use a small capsule to go down to the surface of the moon, and make these exploratory contacts.

337
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It could very well be that we are going to be very much surprised if they are intelligent beings in these spacecraft that they're not like human beings at all. So their way of thinking wouldn't be the same.

338
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Alright, let's take a phone call, gentlemen. Hello.

339
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Hello, yes, Bob. I would like to ask a couple of questions on my cast.

340
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Sure.

341
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Who is it supported by the federal government, and is it affiliated with the Air Force?

342
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No, no.

343
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Quick answers for you. I can do that. No affiliation with the government, no support from the government.

344
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And also, a question on swamp gas. How would swamp gas create an illusion of illuminated objects in the sky at night?

345
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Is there any possibility? I've heard people who have seen swamp fires. Is that what they call them?

346
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Apparently, there is a phenomenon on this. Something like the decaying matter in some logs, the so-called sock fire, and all kinds of these old fires.

347
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This actually, if it has a certain chemical content and a phosphorus, it will glow. I've seen this so evident at night in decaying logs that you could take objects that were made of this, take it into a darkened room,

348
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and it would give off a glow that you could readily see, it would almost light up a corner of a room.

349
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And if the gas is filled with this particular substance, it would give off an illumination.

350
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And then if it came upward because of the expansion of the gas, or because of warm temperatures causing the gas to rise, this would create the illusion of something, an object that was rising into the sky.

351
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Bob Kennedy, you run contact around the air. Hello.

352
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Yes, sir.

353
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Yes, I have a question. I can't remember where I heard this comment, but this was only a lie show you didn't made at all.

354
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Sure.

355
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But in the comment that was mentioned that lashes at UFO sightings were usually related to a certain planet, being solar systems, being close to the Earth.

356
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How do you approach it, Maurice?

357
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Well, I was wondering if there were any planets close to the Earth, which were dependent, were dependent on the existence, and also sort of a science fiction comment.

358
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About a week and a half ago, I think it was the Russians that sent up a probe to see if the collage was merged.

359
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And now a week or so later, you're there about all these UFOs. But I'd like to hear from you.

360
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All right. Thank you for calling.

361
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Bob, the Russian was moved to Venus. They did actually make a hard contact on Venus.

362
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And we have been avoiding that because we don't want to contaminate the planet.

363
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And that's why we preferred a flyby. And we did do a flyby of Venus, making observations.

364
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Unfortunately, our flyby was so far away that most scientists feel that any result that we had were rather inconclusive.

365
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What was the other planets they talked about? Whether they were in opposition at this particular time?

366
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No, I don't believe that any are that close. However, when they are, it is true that not only have we had an increase in UFO activity at those times,

367
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especially when Mars is close by, but scientists have been able to discover many things.

368
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And I wish Donald Keyhole would talk a little bit about the report in the UFO investigator about the confirmation of the canals of Mars. Major?

369
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Well, yes. You know, the first report was released. It was stated on a personal laboratory that there was absolutely no sign of any of the so-called canals or oases of the areas where the canal was in effect.

370
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Now, it turns out that there actually are lines on these films, on a number of them.

371
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Matter of fact, we have seen two movies from here in the office where they were shown to us by Dr. Frank Shelfbury, who is an eminent aircraft biologist at State University of Colorado,

372
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and who has also studied Mars for a long time and will strongly suggest that there may be an approach at last on Mars.

373
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Now, these were films made by the astronauts once in Major Keyhole?

374
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No, they were made by the mayor. Remember, the mayor and the crew by there and the pictures from the distance is several thousand miles,

375
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and you couldn't expect too much detail and good, but on the basis of this, that's the person laboratory, and then that says that there was no indication of any canals,

376
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and that ideal remained fixed for a while, and now it turns out that there were lines on the films, and I don't know whether they were thought better or not to mention at the time,

377
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or whether they were deliberately discovered when they were the more careful with the nomination.

378
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But they are there. Dr. Pombo, the governor of the public, both put to motion, confirms the fact that he's found several canals on these films.

379
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I understand too that there is a movement under foot to put more money into the Mars exploration and to sort of dismiss or not use the money that we had planned to use for the exploration of Venus,

380
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because it was felt that there was a greater reward to be reached by putting all of our eggs into one basket, so to speak, in the exploration of Mars.

381
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I've heard that too. I don't think any actual figures have been released showing a change in appropriation, but it's been reasonable because Mars has indicated that there's more chance of, I mean our evidence indicates there's more chance of some kind of intelligent life there,

382
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if the public exists now than there possibly was in the past. And I believe it's right we would get more rewards, and certainly Venus, if all of the reports of the last two years are correct,

383
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or very doubtful whether there is any life of the type that we would recognize at least.

384
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Yes, sir.

385
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,600
Hi, Bob. Nice to be with you.

386
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Nice to be with you too.

387
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I enjoy your show very much.

388
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:49,600
Thank you so much.

389
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,600
Listen, I have two very brief things.

390
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Number one, my hobby, one of my hobbies is old newspapers, old books, and as a result I have quite a collection of them.

391
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I spend considerable time in the libraries, one in particular, the Boston Public Library.

392
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And today by his very coincidence I was reading a newspaper, an actual newspaper, the original copy of a thing called the Athenian Mercury, which was published in London in 1692.

393
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This paper consists of letters to the editor and answers.

394
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And that's maybe something the bother was, on the front page there were two flying saucer sites.

395
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And this fellow went on to say he was standing by the ocean somewhere there.

396
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They didn't call them flying saucer sites.

397
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No, they didn't. They called them flying dishes.

398
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But I thought that was pretty tough.

399
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Flying dishes.

400
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Flying dishes.

401
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And he went on to describe in perfect detail pretty much what you'd read in today's papers about a thing wheeling in and then going in straight speed and then making shot turns into the tank.

402
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And the answer, of course, the question is what is it?

403
00:33:52,600 --> 00:34:03,600
The answer simply was that well over the years we have had many such studies of flying arch handles, flying anbils, and all the flying saucer that was popular at that time in history.

404
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,600
And that was all I was told, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

405
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The flying dishes.

406
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That was the second thing.

407
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And this is something that's probably been confirmed to be required sometime.

408
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Have you noticed how the general public in the country feels to be alone in this flying saucer thing?

409
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You take something like the sales tax of Vietnam prices.

410
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There are people who are very, very vocal.

411
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:31,600
I mean people in the news media, the Walter Lippman, the Contacts, Huntsley Brinkley.

412
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,600
They all take definite stand.

413
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,600
The newspaper is right editorial.

414
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,600
Some of my best reporters come out for it.

415
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,600
But in flying saucers, what you generally get is straight reporting.

416
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:49,600
And there doesn't seem to be a reporter really, a major national stature who has yet to take a definite stand on this.

417
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:55,600
There's been no clamor from your so-called big people for national investigation.

418
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,600
It's sort of a tongue in cheek.

419
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:58,600
Even in this paper reporting.

420
00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,600
You've got representatives for it.

421
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,600
I haven't done this after no clamoring for an investigation.

422
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:02,600
I agree.

423
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:11,600
And this is a little bit unique, but over the past few years, and I have a feeling that representatives for it, the same is kind of alone in this as well.

424
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:18,600
Your big networks, NBC, CBS, those are specials on some of these things.

425
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:19,600
What's the problem?

426
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,600
Los Angeles, unemployment situation.

427
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:30,600
But yet a thing of the magnitude of possibility of extraterrestrial abilities has drawn a blank.

428
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,600
Well they have done special programs on UFOs.

429
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,600
Yes they have.

430
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:40,600
They have had a movie which I think was kind of a bomb, but I mean that's besides the punch.

431
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,600
It just hasn't been enough often.

432
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:50,600
I get the feeling that an awful lot of people who are sort of, you might consider him one though, the spokesman for the country, the radio for television from this point,

433
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,600
are kind of either shying away or they don't believe it at all.

434
00:35:53,600 --> 00:36:00,600
I frankly, if I can talk perhaps from the inside, I don't think that they're shying away from it.

435
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:06,600
I frankly think that it's because a large percentage of people who would be involved in this really don't strongly.

436
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,600
They think it's too far out there in fact and they treat it as sort of a feature type of thing.

437
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:20,600
In fact I think, Peter, this is finally the first time that flying saucers, I think, have made such extensive hard news as we call it.

438
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:29,600
You know, rather than someone writing about the funnid little farmhouse where the trainman jumps out and takes a few years later or something like that.

439
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,600
The first time I recall, they usually read stories but nothing like this.

440
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,600
Is that right?

441
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:41,600
Well there have been other times it seems to me when they have in the past and at that time of course we gave more emphasis to it

442
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:48,600
and then after a passage of time you don't recall how exciting and how much coverage there really was to these

443
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,600
and I think that would explain that.

444
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:57,600
But I do believe that a lot of people feel that anyone who thinks that things could come from outer space is a kind of a nut.

445
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:07,600
And yet if you realize that we do really plan in our own lifetime to make manned exploration to the planet

446
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:14,600
even though it seems almost impossible that we would ever think of sending a spaceship to another solar system

447
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:20,600
since it would take four light years, that is traveling at 186,000 miles a second.

448
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,600
Still I think one of these days Bob would have to do it back.

449
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,600
You know what I'm thinking of the phone call?

450
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:27,600
Yes Bob?

451
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,600
Yes sir.

452
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,600
I just thought I might be able to shed a little light on the discussion about the Air Force.

453
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,600
I just got out after seven and a half years and I had taken the issue of full reporting personally

454
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:44,600
and I thought it seemed to be a little perturbed about the Air Force maybe not caring about giving them a run around.

455
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:51,600
And I think the main thing here is that when they get a hold of somebody at an Air Force site or base like that

456
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:57,600
they're talking to you like you said an airman or a lower grade man who hasn't the authority to do anything

457
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,600
and usually nobody on the whole site or base has the authority to do anything.

458
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,600
They can't determine who's calling you and if he says he's a Civil Defense Director they have no way of proving this

459
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,600
and by the time everything's checked out of course it's too late.

460
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,600
They definitely do care I know.

461
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,600
And if something is spotted on radar whether we get a call or not it is checked out.

462
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,600
Not always released but checked out.

463
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:25,600
The thing is how can you write a regulation governing something like this to cover the whole Air Force?

464
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,600
It's kind of a little difficult.

465
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,600
And you run into a good situation like you did.

466
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,600
You probably got a whole little lower grade man who had a regulation in front of him.

467
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,600
I always could do, would read the regulation to him and maybe sympathize with him.

468
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:45,600
I do think Bob that it's unfortunate that this is set up in this particular way because since this is the case

469
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:51,600
they have to always do an investigation after the fact rather than being able to send a plane there

470
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,600
and actually observing and finding out for sure what this thing is.

471
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,600
And this leads to a lot of speculation as to what it might have been

472
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:07,600
and if they can get some pretty good expert witness to say that it probably was going so then they mark the case off as solved.

473
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,600
Number one that we're sitting at a radar site, this was in Germany's theater

474
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,600
and the athlete has been sitting at a radar site for about five minutes

475
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,600
and not a darn thing going on but he's just hoping for something to happen.

476
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,600
That's about three o'clock in the morning and we heard these blitz coming across the scope.

477
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,600
And we figured the amount that they were going 18,000 miles an hour.

478
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,600
They were just fooling me down.

479
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,600
There was a couple of injured running back off through Italy and down like nothing's left.

480
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,600
And we really didn't know what to do about it frankly and the captain in charge

481
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:43,600
looked at those things and we called the headquarters and they were sort of heartedly kind of debating

482
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,600
as we should be going and then we went to the physician.

483
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,600
If we admit we have to go up, we admit there's something up there.

484
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,600
If there's something up there that's going 18,000 miles an hour,

485
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,600
maybe we don't want to find out what it is and then we're wondering if it was a rocket

486
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,600
and then suddenly somebody came back.

487
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:02,600
I think they dropped the screwdriver in the equipment in the back and it caused this blitz to come along like that.

488
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,600
A little bit earlier today there was a press conference held as I gather.

489
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,600
It was probably held out in Michigan.

490
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:08,600
Let's see what the baseline are.

491
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,600
This is here in Detroit and this is Dr. J. Allen Mennick,

492
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,600
from Weston University, out for a purposes and the Air Force consulted.

493
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,600
He was set out there this week to investigate the situation and you'll hear him in the beginning say,

494
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,600
I'm talking only about these two sightings and by that he means only the two series of sightings

495
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,600
that they had out there in Detroit and not the rest of the many sightings that we have had

496
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,600
in our country over the past few months and date over the past year.

497
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,600
And here's just the force of that.

498
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,600
It's not the best quality of all this.

499
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,600
So give me an indication about the general attitude.

500
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,600
I'm talking about these two sightings.

501
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,600
I think honestly, there's a nice difference.

502
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:55,600
I am not discussing the appendage of other sightings which could not be explained by a nice difference.

503
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:04,600
I'm talking only about these two series of sightings.

504
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:12,600
The light sees those appendages kind of turning, sometimes turning right in the ground, sometimes turning above it.

505
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:18,600
The flames go out in one place and suddenly appear and not in another, giving you an illusion of motion.

506
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,600
In those images, both the light does not burn or charge the ground.

507
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:29,600
They can appear for hours and all of the time, but appear for hours at a time and sometimes for a whole night.

508
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:37,600
In any way, there is no snow and moving or sound except the popping sound of little explosions which is going to get them ignite.

509
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,600
The majority of the flames in both cases are reported only light.

510
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,600
Light going through, silence going right near the ground.

511
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,600
They have not described an object.

512
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:56,600
Even the only two buildings that did describe an object are stated as a mere 32,500 yards, better than a quarter of a mile.

513
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,600
Now, I doubt that one could make out much detail at that distance at night.

514
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:09,600
It was a black night, no moon, and by the way, the moon was fully found.

515
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:16,600
I remember in my capacity as a scientist and consultant that competent scientists, prior to studying such cases,

516
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:21,600
and evidence from the scientific people, are curious to know and take credit for their research.

517
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,600
Dr. Jane Allen-Hineck of Northwestern University, and Suppositors' List, and an Air Force consultant.

518
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,600
The man was sent by the Air Force out to Michigan to investigate these findings as past week.

519
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,600
That was an attribution pretty much to lunar swamp gas.

520
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,600
A couple of messages, and we'll be back talking more about the days while in Michigan.

521
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:39,600
Yes, sir.

522
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:40,600
Bob, yes.

523
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:41,600
I was wondering something.

524
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,600
Now, I'd like to ask Mr. Kearrow a question.

525
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,600
Sure.

526
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,600
Now, this gentleman said that you'd call the Air Force and try to get the plane up.

527
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:50,600
Yeah.

528
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:57,600
How come this radar in Colorado can't pick it up if they say there's UFOs up there?

529
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,600
And then I have another question.

530
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:05,600
They said that Boyd and Meen had cited one and he shot at it today.

531
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:06,600
Yeah.

532
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,600
But I have an answer on that.

533
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,600
Okay.

534
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:10,600
Well, we should take a shot at it.

535
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:11,600
He fired at it four times.

536
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,600
He missed three, hit it once.

537
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,600
Doesn't take too much for his aim.

538
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,600
I know about the UFO.

539
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,600
Major Kearrow, what about the first thing?

540
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:24,600
Was there anything picked up in any major radar sites on the flat of Michigan?

541
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:31,600
Well, according to the Civil Defense Director Van Orr, I think he told you that any radar

542
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:38,600
that was in the air, they had two brakes, at least last time.

543
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:43,600
But there've been many cases where the Air Force has a better policy and bring this down.

544
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,600
They said there was no radar confirmation, and that later they had to retract.

545
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:48,600
But they did have it.

546
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,600
Now, that happened last summer in Oklahoma.

547
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:58,600
We, Oklahoma State Police, and we have signed reports from there, of course, saying that

548
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:05,600
I'm the Air Force. Take care of our space, cost them. Many times these officers tried

549
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,600
about zero and they were tracked by radar there at height, the altitude, speed, maneuverance

550
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:15,600
and so on. And yet the Air Force gave a public statement that there was no radar tracking.

551
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,600
And you simply have to accept it as a part of the policy to please these things up.

552
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:26,600
Now I'd like to just say something about the matter of the radar tracking. In the Boston

553
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,600
area when I made what I thought was a very good sighting, I called all around to get

554
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:38,600
more confirmation at all from any of the observatories and none of the radar patients in this area

555
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:44,600
had said that they had reported it at all. And the object that I saw at the very time that I saw it

556
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:51,600
and in the very direction that I saw it, doing the things that I had seen was tracked from

557
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,600
Fort Monmouth in New Jersey. So this thing was apparently very high. But as far as I could

558
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,600
determine, no radar in the Boston area had tracked it. Now let's go on to Michigan once again.

559
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,600
On our line is Daniel Campbell. Mr. Campbell, welcome to contact. Thank you, Bob.

560
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,600
And welcome to Boston. Trader Stewart's with us here. Trader, in addition to being one of our WBZ news,

561
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,600
man, is also a member of ICAP. Of course he had made a key on the other end of the line.

562
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,600
Now you have not at such scene any of the saucers have you? No, I have not. I've been out three

563
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:25,600
different evenings with sheriff deputies, but I have not yet seen anything.

564
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:32,600
What time do they usually appear? We've had them appear anywhere from 7.30 in the evening

565
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:38,600
about the same time in the morning. You're on the same time as we are here, correct?

566
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,600
Yes, featuring the standard time. 7.30. You want to stick your head out the window?

567
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:46,600
See if you can think now, do you? Anything reported out here this evening?

568
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:53,600
No, we haven't had anything recorded this evening that I know of, but we had quite a flurry last evening.

569
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,600
What kind of a flurry? Can you give us a little detail on that?

570
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:04,600
We had 200 students at the Eastern Michigan University claim they saw two objects, not two objects,

571
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:10,600
two lights in the sky, one to the east and one to the west of the campus, that's an Ipsilanti.

572
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:16,600
This was confirmed by Mylon Police, the campus police and the Ipsilanti Police Department.

573
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,600
We also have statements from these men, stating that they also saw the lights.

574
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:26,600
What, in addition to saying they just looked like lights, is your indication they were UFOs?

575
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,600
They just looked like lights could have been things on an airplane or some sort of an advertising balloon going by

576
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,600
and one of a number of things.

577
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:45,600
Well, we talked to about 15 of the students from the staff's notes and all of them concurred with the fact that the lights were stationary.

578
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:50,600
We had students say they watched them for 10 minutes. We have another that said they watched it for an hour and a half.

579
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:56,600
The lights changed from red to green to white in order, then back to red, green and white.

580
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,600
Were the colors bright?

581
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,600
They meant about as bright as a bright star.

582
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:10,600
The colors themselves, they said red, green and white, were the changes distinguishable changes or just sort of shading they changed.

583
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:21,600
No, they said they were changing almost as if two different colored lights had been put on a policeman's light on his car and then the flasher.

584
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:28,600
They were flashing in different colors and then all three lights would change, all three of them would change every two seconds.

585
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,600
So the intervals were that fast.

586
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,600
You also talked to the farmer. Was his name Manners?

587
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,600
Yes, Frank Manners.

588
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,600
He and his son saw one of these things, Hover or Land?

589
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:39,600
Yes.

590
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,600
You saw it, Hover, I believe.

591
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,600
How close was he to it?

592
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:50,600
He got, as the papers had said, and as I heard on your program, to about 1500 feet.

593
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:57,600
I would not agree with Dr. Heineck that that is a great distance because I too have been out on the site.

594
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:05,600
And from the vantage point that Mr. Manners had, one would have a very clear vision of anything at that distance.

595
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:15,600
I myself, I think judging this distance, tried it, marked it off, was able to tell the year-making model of various cars from that distance.

596
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,600
So that is such a great distance.

597
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,600
What kind of an attitude pervades the communities out there? How are the newspapers handling this?

598
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,600
As straight news or sort of doing it up in feature style, little tongue-in-cheek or what?

599
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,600
Mostly straight news. We've had a few feature stories on it.

600
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:34,600
Every once in a while something will happen that will lend itself to humor and the papers will pick it up.

601
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,600
But generally it's straight news. We've had just too much out here to laugh at anymore.

602
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,600
Alright, gentlemen, let's make some phone calls.

603
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:41,600
Hello, Bob.

604
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:42,600
Yes.

605
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,600
I would like to ask a question to Major T. Health, I may.

606
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:58,600
About a case that happened on October 23, 1965, out in Minnesota, where an announcer at KEYL, Long Prairie, Minnesota,

607
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:06,600
supposedly saw robots for creatures shaped like tin cans with arms and cycled legs.

608
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,600
Now you can watch those amoungst as they see all sorts of things we've got for them.

609
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:18,600
They're telling to be not flesh or tissue, but a kind of metal. How does he account for this?

610
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,600
Major Keo, do you hear anything about that?

611
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,600
Yes, we have. Actually, the evidence is rather sketchy.

612
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:31,600
And we are putting it on the question margin.

613
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:37,600
Actually, you take the thing like that and you have to have fairly good proof.

614
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,600
There should be several witnesses who saw that same thing and get the same dimensions.

615
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,600
I believe that you would have to say that that is one of the unconfirmed reports.

616
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,600
Gentlemen, let me settle a loaf of rye bread here in Boston. I'm going to be back taking more of our phone calls.

617
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:56,600
Now, oh, before we forget again, Stranger, my golly, what about the young man who mentioned the fact that that fellow up in Maine

618
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,600
was in a pot shot at a flying concert?

619
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,600
Yes, I thought maybe Major Keo would have something to say about people who shoot at these UFOs.

620
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,600
Major, were we concerned about the fellow who took a pot shot at the flying saucer?

621
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:13,600
Oh, yes. Well, that has happened several times. We've been concerned about it too.

622
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:20,600
Over the past year, they've been reports of people who were alarmed by these things and either drives out of their cars

623
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:27,600
or a month that came down at the low altitude or actually fired at one person in West Virginia

624
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:32,600
where a man headed gunner in his car and he jumped out and shot at it.

625
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,600
We have many reports of people actually hitting them.

626
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,600
Why did you say we were concerned about that?

627
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Well, if you start that kind of feeling, you can spread a rum and there's actually no basis to feel fear of these objects

628
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,600
as far as we've found out. There's no evidence of any hostility.

629
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:58,600
And I think we should look at them more calmly and try to get as much scientific information as we can.

630
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:04,600
And it plus people, in fact, there's not been any attacks in the low hostility.

631
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:11,600
And there's a great deal that can be learned if these are actually machines from some others and more advanced civilizations.

632
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,600
So from the 19th point of view, somebody up there likes us?

633
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,600
No, I think that we don't know what motive could be back of these.

634
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:25,600
It could simply be something the Air Force itself years ago suggested in the budget cuts report

635
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:32,600
that an advanced civilization was concerned because we were now preparing to go into space.

636
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,600
We were launching high altitude rockets. We were exploding nuclear bombs.

637
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:42,600
They wanted to check and see whether we were likely to be any sort of a problem as we did get out of space.

638
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:51,600
Bob, I like Jacques Bally's idea in the book Anatomy of a Phenomenon in which he suggests that there has been enough evidence now

639
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:57,600
and it's about time that a group of scientists actually got to work on this as a project,

640
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:02,600
putting their heads together, not just one man going out and interviewing a few people over a few hours,

641
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:08,600
but really working on this to find out if there is something to the UFOs, if they really are from outer space

642
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,600
and coming up with an answer as to what they are.

643
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:16,600
Daniel Campbell, before we close down our line to Michigan tonight, are you going to be out doing any investigating this evening?

644
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,600
I hope not. I was out all out of time.

645
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,600
Well, how many more people do you plan on interviewing out there?

646
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:30,600
Oh, at least a couple thousand. We're going down to Hillsdale, another night-cap member in Ann Arbor and myself, tomorrow.

647
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:36,600
I would think that if you knew that this thing had been spotted over a particular swamp area

648
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:44,600
and this had occurred a couple of nights in a row that it would be an excellent idea to go back there on two or three nights

649
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,600
to see if you didn't see that again and if you did have some expert people with you,

650
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,600
you could actually see it with your own eyes and come to some kind of a consensus.

651
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,600
Okay, Dan, good night. Thank you for joining us.

652
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,600
Good night.

653
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,600
What station do you work for?

654
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,600
WBRJ, Marietta, Ohio.

655
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,600
Okay, very good. What do you do out there?

656
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:04,600
Program director.

657
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,600
Oh, the boss. Oh, the boss, man. Straight up. Here's the program director.

658
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,600
Okay, do you have a question, now?

659
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:19,600
I was wondering, I suppose, Major Keough is the one that I really was wondering about.

660
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:32,600
I have heard that back during World War II that the Army and Air Force were interested in the flying saucer situation

661
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:37,600
pretty much undercover. Of course, they don't say too much about it nowadays,

662
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:47,600
but I heard that they went so far as to have diffraction-grading cameras

663
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:53,600
stationed at some of their Air Force bases hoping to get a picture

664
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,600
and diffraction-grading being similar to a fissure.

665
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:04,600
Oh, the lioness who is really cocky on here to spend all that money.

666
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,600
I think we've got a good question.

667
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,600
Were you curious to know why they did it?

668
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,600
I was wondering if Major Keough had any information on this.

669
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,600
Is this official or what?

670
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,600
Okay, fine. We'll let Major Keough answer that for you. I'm sorry, the line is so bad.

671
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,600
Thank you for calling.

672
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:24,600
Major?

673
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,600
Yes, they did have an official project.

674
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:37,600
About 1951 and 1952, these special cameras with a grits and it turned out to be a failure.

675
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,600
Several times the grits came off, they weren't cemented right there.

676
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,600
They had to be taken back in and worked on again.

677
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,600
They never did turn up anything.

678
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,600
The main reason is because they weren't the right type of equipment

679
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,600
and there was no real campaign to use these things.

680
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,600
As far as I know, they didn't register a single UFO.

681
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,600
Major Keough, once again, thank you very much for joining us tonight on Contact.

682
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:01,600
Thank you, Bob.

683
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,600
Nice to have you back with us. Kind of an exciting week for you, I imagine, though.

684
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,600
Well, thanks for being building up the course that's been going on a long, long time.

685
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,600
All right, and street is still at once again.

686
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,600
Thank you very much for taking time out from that news department down here to join us.

687
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:15,600
Thank you very much, Bob.

688
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:16,600
Okay.

689
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:20,600
At Monday Night on Contact, Bob, we'll tell you about Monday Night on Contact in just a moment.